Traveling To Consciousness

#027: From Suicide To Enlightenment with Josephine Mullally

March 21, 2022 Josephine Mullally
Traveling To Consciousness
#027: From Suicide To Enlightenment with Josephine Mullally
Show Notes Transcript

Viewer Discretion Advised: Discussion of Suicide 

About Josephine 
Josephine has gone head to head with her demons. She goes through the labels that the world cast upon her and like a phoenix rose from the ashes. She has learned how to use her past to help others and is doing so to this day.

Clayton's Notes
 Please be aware of your energy after listening! This has the potential to be a very triggering interview.

This was a messy podcast in many ways. It can be difficult for the brain to recall such traumatic events. So I am beyond proud, humbled, and grateful for Josephine's ability to come on and share her story with such raw vulnerability. Be ready to explore a dark part of reality in this one.

Also, I decided not to include the timestamp of the second interview. I believe this is something that should be experienced in its entirety. Thank you for understanding - much love.

Josephine's Link
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jozen_travels/

Clayton’s Links
Website and App: https://www.travelingtoconsciousness.com/
Master Link: http://linktr.ee/claytoncuteri
Sponsors: https://travelingtoconsciousness.com/article/133008

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[Unknown4]:

welcome to another episode of traveling to consciousness i am your hosting ku terry on today's show we are trying again for round two with our guest we tried a little while back but the energy of the conversation was getting the dogs in both of our setups all wound up and the recording software was crashing and you may ask be asking yourself

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

like why would that happen will josephine and i are diving into a very real very deep and depending on how you view it a very dark conversation she's had a very unique

[Unknown5]:

thirty

[Unknown4]:

path to get where she is today to join us for this conversation subconscious monkeys welcome to the show josephine mali josephine thanks for being here

[Unknown5]:

hi again right too

[Unknown4]:

again around here

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

we'll get to figure it out this time

[Unknown5]:

this is the one

[Unknown4]:

keep the energy cleared

[Unknown5]:

this is this is the deep reactive if need be

[Unknown4]:

we'll take a break if uh yeah the internet

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

starts acting up again um so yeah so i i i

[Unknown5]:

subsequent

[Unknown4]:

guess the let's try to keep it consistent right so like what was the first thing that you wanted to be whenever you grew up

[Unknown5]:

yes i wanted to be a singer a singer i want it to be specifically britney spares um but yeah if you would asked me a singer that's all i did when i was younger

[Unknown4]:

just a lot of singing dancing around

[Unknown5]:

singing dancing yeah

[Unknown4]:

was

[Unknown5]:

yeah expressing myself

[Unknown4]:

kind of like a lot of was there a lot of imitation of britney

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah hate me one more time was that was my weekly performance

[Unknown4]:

oh man that's funn that's cool and so then did where did you like pursue this passion at all did you make any music videos or what was the extent

[Unknown5]:

no so i me and the the over kids there was a few there was a few of us we would like sing a lot but when i was like eight my dad was just like pop you know the whole reality check on me and was like you know what do you want to be obviously from a place of cab but he was starting to kind of like program me to be ready to for the real world qu qu in quote quo

[Unknown4]:

air quotes yeah i guess you're making air quotes

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah um and it was very kind of like okay what are you gonna do as like your real job and i'm like i'm gonna be a singer of course

[Unknown4]:

you like i don't know what you're talking about i's already decided

[Unknown5]:

of course yeah yeah i'm gonna yeah i'm gonna be a sing guy and he's like no like absolutely not that's not realistic you're not going to be a singer and just came crashing down on those dreams i guess and it doesn't sound crazy now like it sounds quite like like when i look at it i'm like you can see it from like a rational reasonable view but then it was devastating i just couldn't believe that he i i don't know like i i just it was my first experience of having kind of like a something crashing down on my real like me as a child being in a bubble you know as a child it's likely very imaginative nothing is stopping you you you can do anything you can take on the world and that was like my first i guess real like traumatic experience of someone just popping a bubble and being like you know like condition in there and it's like oh so no that that quickly ended the dream quickly ended there that was it no more singing from that point

[Unknown4]:

that's wild i really like how you describe that of you know like when you're a kid like everything's is possible anything's possible and it was just kind of like this bubble that popped it sounds like you

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

put your dad in like really high regards with you know with regards to like approval i mean and i assume most people do but just that's what it sounds like

[Unknown5]:

yeah a a lot everything i think more so than my mom i don't know why but everything that i've done

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

is always like one in my dad to be proud of me so yeah

[Unknown4]:

did you do did your mom say anything about this did you bring this up to her of what you wanted to do

[Unknown5]:

mommas mo is more encouraging actually mama was like you can do anything you want what maybe two passive yeah you can do anything you want i don't know how invested she was into that you know it was just like yeah you can you can do it it was like oh guy but yeah no she um very passive so very mild and passive it's not like go on go do it it's very like do whatever you want

[Unknown4]:

just like the world's your oyster kind of thing you can do

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

whatever you want

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

it's and so and so then whenever you're like okay you can't be a quote unquote can't be a singer what was the next thing that kind of popped into your head

[Unknown5]:

well it was what dad suggested which was computers i think my dad grew up in a time where you know like you had to work hard and you had to provide for your family and you know he obviously struggled so for him it was like he wanted me to have the best opportunities and i mean we'll get there but later on in life he explained all of it to me so um yeah he just was like you need to do

[Unknown4]:

swe

[Unknown5]:

computers that's the future you know he built computers his sister was a software engineer my own air so it was very kind of like that's where the money is that's where you're going to be supported that's where you're going to have a stable secure income that's where you need to go so then that's why i did computers

[Unknown4]:

at the age of eight

[Unknown5]:

well that was like what i started playing computer games

[Unknown4]:

oh

[Unknown5]:

and so that's how it started you know i started getting an interest for computer games and being on a computer a lot and yet so then the opportunity you know as you go through school like picking computers that was the that was the choice

[Unknown4]:

it was just yeah absorb as much computer information as you can and dive

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

into that

[Unknown5]:

well i a i was starting to think that that's what i was gonna do so it was like i was preparing myself for that

[Unknown4]:

okay and then um i guess as a parallel as we're kind of going through this i know that you're like into spirituality and consciousness did you have any like were there any talks with your parents or uh mom dad about the nature of being and you know what all is happening

[Unknown5]:

no no not really and you know it's like my parents so as a lot of parents and not parents that have like done the work gone inwards become very conscious so it's not it's not that energy really

[Unknown4]:

gosh it wasn't like a part of the conversations and so then i i i guess i'm having a little bit of difficulty since we kind of talked about this before but i remember at some point probably around eight or eleven did your parents they separated and then did your mom remarry

[Unknown5]:

no so my dad actually moved my dad left when he when i was free

[Unknown4]:

when you are three

[Unknown5]:

so yeah so my dad left when i was free and my stepdad came in around the same time i think all like fa so it was like dad went our stepdad came in pretty like pretty soon

[Unknown4]:

oh

[Unknown5]:

after that and then he he was my dad sir like he bought me up taught me the alphabet and you know all of those things

[Unknown4]:

and that you're you're saying your stepdad it was your dad was your quote unquote dad

[Unknown5]:

no so like

[Unknown4]:

no

[Unknown5]:

not so not the dad that told me to do computers so that's like

[Unknown4]:

okay that was

[Unknown5]:

a real biological father

[Unknown4]:

gotcha

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah foot yeah for stepdad was like the father figure more so cause my my real dad was pretty like like flake like he just wasn't consistent wouldn't always pick us up you're supposed to get us set like every sunday sometimes we didn't show up so it was a bit like wasn't a huge part of our lives growing up

[Unknown4]:

i gotcha yeah he was kind of in and out let's say and so i

[Unknown5]:

pictures

[Unknown4]:

i i'm not sure why i'm blanking i feel like there's a block here of the questions that i want to ask do you feel that as well

[Unknown5]:

yeah it's probably because we spoke about eth it's one of those things it's like you feels like it's not flowing as natural because you've spoken about it again but i think that you just whatever is going into your intuition you know whatever

[Unknown4]:

okay

[Unknown5]:

wants to come in

[Unknown4]:

okay so i i guess let's just i guess try to just push in and jump into the to the to the rough stuff the conversations that are difficult to have because that's where

[Unknown5]:

yes

[Unknown4]:

i wanna take this but i'm i'm feeling blocks to get there um

[Unknown5]:

and

[Unknown4]:

so what's a good question to kind of lead us there maybe maybe let's start when because i know that you

[Unknown5]:

produce

[Unknown4]:

let's let's set it up a little bit i guess because i know that there was a little bit of struggle regarding

[Unknown5]:

st

[Unknown4]:

sexual trauma and your childhood stuff that i know a lot of people go through but maybe you experienced it a little bit more heavy than most would did you realize was it not till like later in life that you realized that this was sexual trauma and something that wasn't right or was this something that you kind of knew sooner than like let's say ten fifteen years down the road

[Unknown5]:

i i honestly think that on a subconscious level when i was like thirteen fourteen

[Unknown4]:

co

[Unknown5]:

i i i think that it started to dawn on me that like something had happened and it disturbed my spirit and my you know it just it disturbed something you know something wasn't right because i mean what what kid teenage like young kid i'm not even a teen am i a teenager yeah i'm a teenager at thirteen fourteen but what kid starts self harming when they don't they've not seen that you know it's like there's a there's there's something that's coming up there that i'm

[Unknown4]:

was it

[Unknown5]:

not even conscious about like i can't even really understand why i'm doing something like that so for me i think that that's when i learned that there's something trying to be expressed and i don't know if you've ever heard oh spoke to someone about self harm but i'll explain it from my perspective like self when i used to call myself physic clay it used to relieve emotional pain it felt very satisfying for me and i know that sounds weird and people could never understand why i enjoyed self

[Unknown4]:

so

[Unknown5]:

harming but it would be a temporary relief of like it's strange but like the physical pain would take away the emotional pain it almost was so weird that that was like my copa mechanism and that's what it was essentially so i knew at that point when i was just doing that and i'd had no prompts i'd not learned that from anywhere i'd not seen that

[Unknown4]:

he

[Unknown5]:

that something was no okay you know like that's not normal

[Unknown4]:

right that there's like something you're trying to express almost it's almost like the way it's resonating with me is that the energy was kind of built up inside of you and the only

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

way to let it out was to physically bleed from it

[Unknown5]:

you know when you put it like it's like it's symbolic for that it's like a way of being able to express something let let something out and if you think about my experience with the sexual abuse it happened and when it

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

happened and when we me and my sister discovered it together what happened is we then told my mom and we came out about it because we were like such young children like nine my sister was nine i was eleven from that point

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

we told my mom because we're like our mom is gonna protect us surely and then we were told to basically say that we lied so if you think about that we we're suppressing that so that's like it makes sense then that i wanted to express

[Unknown4]:

so let's i mean maybe late some run through the timeline well two things i'm thinking

[Unknown5]:

yes

[Unknown4]:

of is number one i think i'm going to have to put in our original conversation at the beginning of this because it's you know to give people maybe credence so feel free to repeat stuff you know feel free to kind of go over that stuff again because i might have forgotten but maybe let's take a second to appreciate the timeline of how we got to self harming right you're saying it was at the age of thirteen and let's say in between the ages of three let's say and thirteen what i've pieced together is that there's a couple things that occurred one would have been you know sexual abuse one would have been being told to lie and being told by your parents that lying is the right thing your mom i guess specifically that line was the right thing to do and then

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

self harming so could you lay out a little bit of a timeline so that we're able to understand

[Unknown5]:

yes if so yeah so i would say that like generally my life as a child i remember a lot of happy memories like i remember playing i remember being imaginative creative

[Unknown4]:

eight

[Unknown5]:

so my life generally was pretty good as in i don't i'm not conscious of like it being bad as such like i lived in a very kind of like first world pover a um kind of like no one no more now um so that was a struggle there would often be times where we didn't have say you know like just resources but i guess like my childhood was i i remember a lot of happy memories really but there is obviously a lot of things that are you know not not functional let's just use the word functional because i feel like that's that's a good word to you not functional and then it's like when i guess like for me that the most life changing event that happened was when i was eleven and when my sister was nine so that's like when things just you know just took this huge one eight and was like whoa like i had to grow up you know that so that's like the most significant part of me transitioning into this whole new life or reality of like whoa you know this is this is insane the abuse actually had been going on for it must have started when it was like ten so the abuse had obviously already started um and i know so yeah so i mean timeline that the abuse had happened and was happening and when i was about eleven that's when i then came out and told my sister so that actually had been going on for i mean it's so hard to have spit like i don't know the dates exactly but i just remember that it was normalized

[Unknown4]:

wow

[Unknown5]:

it was like a normal thing that was happening you know from so my stepdad was the person who was looking after us i should probably have that in my stepdad was the person who was taking care of was he was taking us to school he was cooking for us my mom was in bed a lot of the time so my mom is like really depressed she's got loads of like things wrong with her mental health and physically she's got a load of things

[Unknown4]:

see

[Unknown5]:

as well so my mom's coping mechanism is to just sleep and avoid everything and when i say that we thought that was normal we had friends come around after school one time at three p m and they would be like where's your mom and we're like she's in bed thinking nothing of it and they would be like that's what it we were like what and then it was only when we would go to friends' houses and their moms like doing things and they're open cleaning and cook and we really like is it a that's weird or is it that's where it's like legend legit that's that's how normalized it was for our mom to be in bed so that's kind of the dynamic was like my mom was predominantly in bed her whole life and our stepdad was the person that was there apparent in us an office agreement was at the same time but not for them but like you know nervous laugh it sounds mental but it is i guess it is a little bit rental

[Unknown4]:

i mean there's a lot of things in life that are crazy so i mean i

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

i get it and i i think the the laughing for instance like i know i laughed a little bit there i think it's kind of just that emotional release of not really

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

sure what to say or how to process things and it's kind of just like this laughing just as a way to for your body to kind of shake out those those feelings

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah yeah it's not cla it's not good

[Unknown4]:

so

[Unknown5]:

i it's my coping mechanism as well laughing so you know like even pain turns into laughter so i've learned how to make transmit it until after it's so straight

[Unknown4]:

that is that's interesting i mean because i

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

know when you laugh you release like a lot of happy chemicals which

[Unknown5]:

yeah yes

[Unknown4]:

there's a weird not a weird weird it such a weird word maybe there's some sort of mental connection there with like you know pain and then trying to compensate by laughing in fact

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

so so let me at least try to tell you your story back to you based on how i understand it me

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

where i'm wrong

[Unknown5]:

let's do it

[Unknown4]:

so age of three your biological dad

[Unknown5]:

one

[Unknown4]:

kind of moved out and roughly around the same time this new guy moved in which is a little interesting do you know how your mom would have met this new guy if she was just bedridden majority of the time

[Unknown5]:

well the stories and i don't know which story is true i've also learned that adults lie

[Unknown4]:

no

[Unknown5]:

adults don't like to tell the truth and honestly the amount of different stories i've heard from mom and dad mom and dad just have completely different stories and none of them tell the like i don't know who's telling them the truth and i say to them i don't care i just want to know the truth i don't care if he's wrong or right or any of this but and she now there was one story and i think there is truth in this i think did my mom admit this um my mom actually the started to have like an affair with my stepdad and no no no so it gets more messed up than this no i needs to tell you my dad's sister was going out with my stepdad so my auntie was going out with my stepdad and my mom

[Unknown4]:

you're okay so your aunt was going out with your now step dad before he was your stepdad

[Unknown5]:

yes so my dot

[Unknown4]:

your dad

[Unknown5]:

was going out with my mom

[Unknown4]:

okay

[Unknown5]:

and my dad's sister was going out with my stepdad

[Unknown4]:

okay i see

[Unknown5]:

it was pray messed up

[Unknown4]:

yeah that's interesting yeah

[Unknown5]:

it's a fa watch yeah so the story that i know and i i

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

feel is true is that they my stepdad and mom started so my mom starts a che on my d with my stepdad and my stepdad cheated on my auntie with my mom so i think i think that's how it all kind of happened

[Unknown4]:

well and what i find very fascinating and we'll get to this point in the story is i know it's a certain point in the story your mom starts telling you to lie about kind of the sexual stuff that came and to me it's this is all sounding like pure projection of essentially the situation that they bestowed upon you it was like hey we lied about our sexual past now we want you to do

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

the same and continue that let's say negative bad karmic loop of some sort

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah makes sense doesn't it

[Unknown4]:

yeah yeah unfortunately so yeah so let's see here you were three years old

[Unknown5]:

fire

[Unknown4]:

um they let's say decided your debt your biological dad left your stepdad then moves in do you remember times when your mom would have been out of bed or was it mostly just she was pretty much bedroom

[Unknown5]:

yeah like no so when i was moma was up mama's mom was up when we were really younger so probably around between the ages of like three so when i moved to the uk cause i i'm from ireland originally so i moved to the uk when i was f so between free and like eight was pretty awake and active and she

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

would be up and stuff but i f because mom was taking speed someone was taking um i don't know what speed i don't know if it's called speed i don't know what the actual terminology is for it

[Unknown4]:

i not it is speed i don't know what the chemical name is but

[Unknown5]:

okay okay so it is

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

called speed call um someone took speed and that was the thing that made her do things so you'd always know when one was on speed because she would be clean in the house she'd be or should be cooking should be operating um but then the crash from the speed was free four days in bed and so it was kind of like that cycle so i remember her she used to party a lot with her friends i do remember like snippets like this where she would be party y and mom always young let's not forget my mom had me when she was eighteen so she was a young mom i don't think she ever got to go and live her life you know um so yeah i mom was up in in those occasions i remember that like the book she predominantly

[Unknown4]:

yes

[Unknown5]:

was in bed and it you know we really would be knocking on and mom mom can you get up can you get up like this would be me and my sister all of the time no can you get out of bed like we want editor to be there and look after us and have her present like it was neglect it was like a it was very neglectful emotionally she's just very vacant

[Unknown4]:

do you feel like that you took over maybe not at this point but did you feel a sense of responsibility for your

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

sister to fill that role

[Unknown5]:

yeah i was i was more you know i did take on morale i d and responsibility is one of the biggest struggles i've had in life you know i feel emotion coming up it's okay and i rarely struggle with taking on responsibility for everyone

[Unknown4]:

so

[Unknown5]:

around me and like really heavy i'm really good at my innovation flo now can you see this and it's it's really affected me you know to to be like the person who's always responsible for people the person who is like like i really struggle with responsibility b in a beautiful way i am so good at taking responsibility like to god you know very good at being like chopping my ego taking responsibility in situations knowing when i'm but like to blame or to like need to own my store so it's kind of a double edged sword in a way but yeah i took on memorial for sure and then especially when the when the sexual abuse came

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

out it was like even more you know it was like why mom's not protecting us so i i really am the one looking after us now yeah

[Unknown4]:

and and so i'm trying to remember how that all rolled out um in our earlier conversations but but i from what i remember and i'd love for you to clarify because again i going to put those interviews at the beginning of this what it was that the kind of the sexual abuse started i think y before you were ten and then it kind of got normalized around the ages of ten or eleven um did you first realize that this was happening to your sister as well or did you realize that something was wrong before then

[Unknown5]:

i guess it was happening to me and i probably as a protective measure because i'm the oldest i was probably thinking i need to find out if this is happening to my sister you know she's younger than me i but need to care for and protect her and that's kind of like whatever came over me because it was very i went into my sister's

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

room and was like is this happening to you and she

[Unknown4]:

i

[Unknown5]:

said yeah and then we've kind of i mean we embraced each of them we just cried and hugged each other foot for so long i i just can't even imagine how to young children have that capacity to connect on something like that you know it's so crazy to me now just i can just see you says to little children hog in about something so huge and knowing it's wrong but not quite knowing the depth of how long it is

[Unknown4]:

food

[Unknown5]:

you know how big it is how impactful that's that's gonna be on us um so yeah that's i guess that it was just an urge for me to be like is this happening to my sister as well and that's then yeah

[Unknown4]:

was that the was that the epiphytic moment of this is wrong like did you you reconcile that it was wrong before or was the thought process more along the lines of like wait what if he's doing this to my sister as well wait i wouldn't want this to happen to my sister like how did that kind of mentally like the

[Unknown5]:

is

[Unknown4]:

wrongness versus like it being your sister if that makes sense

[Unknown5]:

yeah so it it felt wrong so when when he was doing it to up to me it felt wrong i felt uncomfortable but it was done in a very kind of like covert way it wasn't done intrusive it was very just just weirdly done like it was normal you know it was like the way that he would touch me it was almost as if it's okay that i'm touching you like this you know it's not strange that i' touching your hair so my own body my own intuition knew that it was wrong because my body felt weird but as a child i couldn't intellectually understand why it was weird you know cause i'm like this is i just i'm a child how do i know that that's wrong i don't know that that's wrong because i i ought so it just i i was just going off my intuition i guess like my body felt repulsed you know my body would be rejecting that i would be wanting to get away from him in in those situations so i guess that that's enough for me to know that it was wrong as a child that was enough

[Unknown4]:

and so yeah and so then if we keep the timeline going you kind of like talked with your

[Unknown5]:

nine

[Unknown4]:

sister you guys embraced was there what was kind of like the next measure after that was there a a pool to say something to your mom what was the next like okay he's doing this to my sister as well something's wrong here we need to do something what was that next something

[Unknown5]:

well i think that was the as children trying to decide what do we do next

[Unknown4]:

that be

[Unknown5]:

what are we supposed to do and that's we actually were really scared we were like we don't know what to do we don't and we were like that's when we came to the conclusion surely the only thing to do is tell mo like we have to tell mom and we were like ah you know like we didn't i guess we just didn't understand we were just scared of like what that would mean but we we did come to the agreement right the next step is to mo and yeah we we i think did we tell f a frack mo my mom's friend first maybe we did maybe we told up

[Unknown4]:

school

[Unknown5]:

mom's friend first all and it maybe she helped us to tell mom i can't remember the like the actual facts and logistics that is such a messy time of my life but we did end up t on basically and yeah

[Unknown4]:

yeah and if i remember yeah i just i guess i want to point out what i remember

[Unknown5]:

else

[Unknown4]:

because in my mind i'm trying to keep it all organized myself i mean it's a it's a crazy situation to read first of all to even recall right like i personally i mean i have kind of expect spirit sexual trauma not to the extent that you did it by any manager but like there's a weird thing where it's like kind of hard for your brain to like remember was that how this happened was that how this happened

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

did that happen next yeah and

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

and so then you if i remember in the story you went to your mom you told her at that point did she tell you to lie because i thought there was also like a situation where you went to the police and then that's

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

when is that when you were told to lie

[Unknown5]:

so what happened was we told mom she obviously like because the mom's friend had been involved as well the police were wrong and it was kind of like oh like this is wrong he needs to go like kicked out and we rang the police we give statements like it all was coming out and he was gone and mom was kind of like i think more legit was just shell shocked like why i'm thinking about having a visual of her at that time i think she just didn't know what to do so we ran the police we told them we gave statements it was like a whole thing that it was like oh we like if this is all happening like it's all being resolved almost like and then i mean and then and then one started disappearing with my little brother my little brother who was born to my stepdad started just acting weird we were like she never leaves the house so why is she leaving the house now and and at this time my mom's friend was actually just horrified you know like she was like sure she was like that cell messed she's like this and she told her own this is screws like what you doing kind of thing and then yeah like mom was going and meet and the staff died one was going actually meeting him and staying with him and then within i don't know the attack timeline but within i don't know it could have been a month could have been six weeks whatever it was that's when the conversation happened almost like he's coming back and you're gonna have to tell the police that you've lied and you're gonna have to say that you attention seeking because otherwise he's gonna go to jail do you want him to be beat up it was like the gill and the what about your little brother he's not gonna have a dad i mean we're i i'm naive still now i'm naive as an adult as a child i was even more naive and innocent and you know will we don't want him to get be up we we love this person we we we loved him he was our father he was our father figure he cared for us he gave us love of in effect and affection in messed up i mean he was the person giving us the love of a parent no no one else was given us love as a parent he was the only person giving us love as a parent so in a really mastered way we love him so that was more of a mind like it was yeah it was messed old man it was really my stall

[Unknown4]:

that's wild i mean yeah and i mean it i was putting myself in your shoes your your mom isn't giving you any affection or attention she's out of the house she's in bed and it's from my experience and it sounds like it's similar to yours like whenever you're saying like he loved us it's like well when you're a child it's almost like you don't first of all love is a very large word like there are very many things that fall under the

[Unknown5]:

yes

[Unknown4]:

love category like the

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

the way you love your sister different than the way i love your dad the way you

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

love singing and so that word like it like it almost has this proclivity to allow more g like a guilt to almost like well you love him right or well you love

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

this don't you so like why would you

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

do that you know

[Unknown5]:

yeah oh like you love your brother you don't want your brother to be without a dad at all yeah i mean yeah we don't want anyone to go through like we don't want someone to get beaten off like especially not someone that we love like that's our farmer like of course we don't want that

[Unknown4]:

right

[Unknown5]:

you know and if that means that we have to lie so that he's okay then sure surely we're gonna be we

[Unknown4]:

right

[Unknown5]:

don't know we don't know

[Unknown4]:

nobody gets hurt if i lie

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

so was that so what what's the time line here then i'm trying to reposition myself

[Unknown5]:

yeah so so from that point that obviously got more dysfunctional because outsiders were now involved it wasn't just in our little home where things were happening and no one was knowing now it's like

[Unknown4]:

joy

[Unknown5]:

mom's friend knew that mood had led him back in and it was a bit weird and you know my steps stepdad's children thought we were lying because we've just told everyone that we're li and so we received a lot of abuse from older adult people saying how like messed up we are and you know all of these things i know my little brother stuck in the middle of all of this as well somewhere we we just had so much going on i mean he was obviously our stepdad was back in the house and this was when you know that's obviously psychologically it's probably mess of us in a whole big level that we had to just pretend if everything was normal and happy and life was normal and you just got a you know classic suppression we just go with it um and weirdly we kind of adopted to it sounds really messed up but we we just adapted to it and the kind of became a

[Unknown4]:

what

[Unknown5]:

a normal dynamic

[Unknown4]:

that's crazy

[Unknown5]:

except for my sister used to pull things in front of the door so we couldn't get into the room and and you know she was living in fear um

[Unknown4]:

and so this was

[Unknown5]:

and i was very independent

[Unknown4]:

was that after he came back like at point you guys were like okay we gotta kind of keep our distance from him as the best we can even though he's living under the same roof

[Unknown5]:

yeah i guess you know like it was yeah i guess we just carried on living in our lives and stuff like that um i was very distant and very independent and very kind of flight i obviously took on a very big kind of energy of like you can't mess with me now because i'll mess with you kind of ive because he never did anything to me again um but a couple years i had passed and he actually did touch my sister again um and i think because it because she was very dramatic very she was very out there she lied a lot and you know i mean he took advantage of her character co cause he thought no one's going to believe her because she was like that you know it was like oh you know classic gabe she's just lying again you know it was it was actually unbearable sometimes how much of a drama queen she was and i think he took advantage of that because he thought no one's gonna believe her he couldn't have done it to me again because i was too level heed i was too smartt i was two grown up i was too like you can't mess with me um so he didn't touch me again because i think he

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

knew that if i'd have told people they would have believed me and my sister just went off the rails she didn't tell anyone and but she just started being very destructive very kind of like just crazy you know very like the the behavior was wild and we just couldn't understand what was happening but it turns out he was you know he was torching a rogan so at that point so that it happened you know within a couple of years of being back that at that point that's when mom got rid of him for good so that was the end of him being in our lives a sort

[Unknown4]:

okay so let's okay let me repeat back the timeline just so i'm clear

[Unknown5]:

yeah with it

[Unknown4]:

on it okay so so three biological dad moves out the new dad moves in then around ages ten to nine you're ten your sister's nine that's whenever you oh she was eight so you were ten she was eight that's whenever you guys

[Unknown5]:

eight she would have been eight

[Unknown4]:

realized like that this was happening or that maybe that's about when it started

[Unknown5]:

that was on its side

[Unknown4]:

and then a you were

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

eleven she was nine and that was the first time when you

[Unknown5]:

hm

[Unknown4]:

guys embraced each other you knew it was wrong that's whenever

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

you kind of came out and you were like hey like you know this is all screwed up like mom this is what stepdad is doing then about

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

you i guess at that point would have filed a police report and then a few months later your mom starts seeing him again tells you to lie about it and then over the course of the next few months stepdad moves back in you guys are then like kind of putting up you're putting up a little bit more of a fight to prevent it from happening yet within another sounds like two or three years so you'd have probably been like fourteen and your sister twelve is he then

[Unknown5]:

yes

[Unknown4]:

proceeded to kind of touch her again and then so at that point in the story did your sister kind of come to you and tell you and like did you would you have believed her

[Unknown5]:

actually she would have been it was actually around it was must have been more like years like it it was more when she was fifteen because i was seventeen because what happened was i took responsibility and when we found out so we found out because my sister was acting out and

[Unknown4]:

sixty

[Unknown5]:

she's been very self destructive and she told the family friend see you know the original friend friend who knew about it the first time she told her so then i found out and what i did was i took my sister to the doctors at seventeen and i said i think my sister is narcissistic i actually i actually had been researching like my sister's got an artistic personality disorder the way that she's acting she can't build relationships with people like all of these things i like took my sister to the doctors because i was like look i think there's something wrong with my sister and i want a help and protector and the doctor was like why do you think your sister has got this like these issues i said i think it's because we've been abused and at seventeen your class as a child so they had to ring social services they had to they were like we have to like you're a child so we have to do something about this it's not just like you're an adult and you can take care of this and

[Unknown4]:

w

[Unknown5]:

i was like i don't care i care what happens to my mom i don't care if something bad happens to her i need to be responsible for my younger sister and make sure she's safe

[Unknown4]:

good for you i

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

mean and and so then okay so at this point in the timeline you're seventeen she's fifteen so like what happens with child services do they like calm do like an investigation

[Unknown5]:

yes so they come on

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

it's a little bit below right they were more concerned about my little brother because my little brother was younger and we were like has it happened to him would he have but we kind of came to the general consensus that he's done it to us because we're not his children and we actually don't think he would have done it to his biological children um but anyway i mean we'll never know that and but we um what happened was we were trying to get justice so the second time round we were trying to get it to go to i think

[Unknown4]:

that's

[Unknown5]:

the social services wanted to push it into like court and make sure that something happened and unfortunately and the they just was like it will not hold up but you will not it will not hold up you'll get ripped apart because you've said that you were attention seek in the first time round you'll just get roped apart as teenagers like they just they told us that they told us that straight like you will not hold up in court there is no there is no justice for you here because not only has it been not only has it been years like not only has it been years and it's your word against his but like you literally you said you lied the first time so they they're just gonna think that you're making this up that you're incensed and we were just like right

[Unknown4]:

wow i mean

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

there's a i can take the lesson from there right there like the power of you know the truth verse lying like it's

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

fuck

[Unknown5]:

yeah it's crazy man like it's actually deep

[Unknown4]:

and i'm sure that left a little bit more of an impersonation on you as well being told there's no judicial system justice

[Unknown5]:

i guess it was one of those confirming things of like okay there's no one to rely on like a for he figures there's people who's supposed to put i've just been learning so much from okay moms don't protect me like parents adults are not good i i t no wonder i had a breakdown i swear like my whole reality was just being broken in so many ways like i come from being such an innocent beautiful creative child that just loved life was so happy and expression and i just i honestly when i was a child i loved life i was so joyous i joyous now but i was so happy and i mean all children are right but like i just remember loving the beauty of life and play in and and butterflies and nature and sunshine and you know i just loved life so much and i just could never have prepared myself for how shattering reality was you know like really how shattering life could be so for me that that whole process is just yeah it it was a bit watch for my sensitive so it was a law um but yet there was no justice no justice and what really triggered me about that whole situation of no justice was i was also there was also no justice for a situation that had happened where i was raped at thirteen um thirteen or fourteen like i can't remember exactly what age it was i think it was thirteen and i at the same situation like it came out people told me i was a wire i was attention seek in and it was just like surely not short like i think because of what had happened with my stepdad that made the the whole situation happening with the rape it made me feel like even more like i was like am i attention seeking like i actually didn't think that i'd been raped at which i i didn't i didn't think that i'd been raped bearing in mind i was thirteen

[Unknown4]:

one

[Unknown5]:

i didn't want to have i didn't want to have this situation happen but this this person was older than me i was at friends' house staying there and again it was just that whole process of like your lion your your your attention so you can and i was just like am i am i attention seeking am i lying is it my fault did i want that that's how i that's how i lived with that because i actually thought that i was the one in the wrong for for that situation and i don't know that's why site up behind so there we go there's the timeline to bring you to the cell par

[Unknown4]:

i mean that's crazy and that's that's for sure at a large scale cause i know on a on like a maybe a less heavy scale i personally know like there's ideas i've had or situations i've been myself where you know i it's like i

[Unknown5]:

two

[Unknown4]:

can feel and i know something's true but the outside world's like telling you something else and so you have this like introspection about yourself where you're like did i do that or is that how that actually came off like how much of that

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

actually is true like in my

[Unknown5]:

hm

[Unknown4]:

am i the one that's wrong

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

and so was and so did you say so let's who first of all who

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

uh so was the self harming then after the rape at thirteen or was that later i was at thirteen

[Unknown5]:

yet it was it was i i think i saw itself it would make sense that it was around forty um again i it's i hate not knowing fact like being like certain about these timelines but it's such a mess like it's such a you know you just that

[Unknown4]:

question

[Unknown5]:

you're not writing these things down in a journal it must have been fourteen because it will have the rate would have happened when i was thirteen and then it because it came out like a year later um

[Unknown4]:

came out a year later

[Unknown5]:

so yeah and and the yeah it came up as in like so the rape happened and then i lived with it for i think it was like nine months to a year so it must have come out when i was about fourteen and i remember telling it was a friend that i told first and it was actually her who said to me that's rape she was like what's happened to you is is rape and i was like w you know i like and she's like you didn't want to do it she was like he's raped yet and i was like oh i don't know like because i wasn't screaming and she was like it doesn't matter you know and then that's all like now i can understand i mean speak to me i like a very kind of like headstrong person when i was a teenager if anybody ever tried to hurt me i would do this i would you know this is what i would do if anybody try to like do anything to me i'd be like i was very like that

[Unknown4]:

you're very outgoing about it

[Unknown5]:

you know so yeah yeah very kind

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

of like i can like hold myself kind of thing and then when i had that experience i did i was very passive very like submissive very kind of like just didn't know i i wasn't like kicking off or angry or you know and so then i guess like that made me feeling more so like it wasn't like it you know like cause i was

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

expecting that surely if it was happening then this is how you react so yeah the the the friend actually sh shone light on that and that's when then i was like cat to tell my parents so yeah that's when i told my parents bear in mind this is after the the abuse my stepdad's reaction was

[Unknown4]:

hm

[Unknown5]:

it was strange he was so angry like he was really angry that this had happened to me and he was gonna go and like kill this guy and i was like is that normal that he feels that way like

[Unknown4]:

seven

[Unknown5]:

for me i remember thinking like you've abused me how are you angry you've done the same thing as what they like obviously what this guy had done was is worse sexually it'd been a bit more like it was like actually ra to me but i was like you've you've abused me like i don't get why you're so angry right now like it was such a weird dynamic

[Unknown4]:

i find that really fascinating you say that because as you were telling that story in my head i was even thinking like i i i thought something along the lines of like i bet her dad when she or your stepdad when he heard about this got mad and then you said that and

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

i was like oh shit

[Unknown5]:

wow so you picked up on that yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

and let me know if this resonates with you because this is how it hit me is do you think that there might have been like a feeling of i know this is gonna sound bad but like a feeling that like you were your stepdad's like you belong to him kind of thing like like he didn't want

[Unknown5]:

probably

[Unknown4]:

anybody else like hooking up

[Unknown5]:

mm

[Unknown4]:

with you at all

[Unknown5]:

mm probably i'd say so

[Unknown4]:

some element of that

[Unknown5]:

probably did have that kind of like attachment yeah yeah i i think that that's probably quite a normal th like a a normal thing in that situation

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

he was very like that about my sister as well yeah

[Unknown4]:

like there was like no boys kind of thing

[Unknown5]:

very like controlling yeah i mean i did have a i did get a boyfriend when i was about fourteen fifteen so i was he happy about it probably not he was very miserable granpar i don't know if that was because i had a boyfriend but he was he was like that anyway you know

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

he's like a miserable oman

[Unknown4]:

so i would let's keep it going i

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

don't know a smooth way to transition into my next question but it it's something that i really want to discuss because in my previous conversation with my the hypnotherapist and in the books that i'm reading about germany of the soul they all talk about past life regression life after life life between lives and i remember in your

[Unknown5]:

i

[Unknown4]:

story and when we had talked i don't even know if it's been mentioned yet in the other interviews the earlier ones but self harm kind of led to suicide attempts and i believe you said that they were two so could you walk us through when and how the first one happened

[Unknown5]:

yeah so let's if we could encapsulate then so that whole situation between the ages of then fourteen and twenty that was when i was kind of i guess then as well coming into my own learning that i'm you know learning about myself and all of that that was when i was going through life trying to learn who i am and what my place is in the world and obviously living with all of these things i didn't have anyone who was conscious or knew what i we didn't have anybody validating anything or working through these things so i had to just show up as a normal person a normal teenager like my friends and

[Unknown4]:

sure

[Unknown5]:

you know like i guess i i s drinking actually really heavily at forty

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

but that's didn't feel weird because all of the other kids were doing it so it didn't feel like i was doing that because it was weird it just felt like i was doing that because everybody else was doing it actually what i saw i noticed is like that became a thing for me where i was using alcohol as a way to express myself so i actually was i actually think i was alcoholic but like not in the way that like an alcoholic drinking every day but a binge drinker so i i would do this a lot between that time start taking drugs heavily when i was like seventeen eighteen a side smoking weed when i was like fourteen as well so fourteen drinking take like smoking lots of weed

[Unknown4]:

okay

[Unknown5]:

and just trying to figure myself out and then that's like i mean in that time

[Unknown4]:

when you grow quick ro cook when you said you were

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

doing drugs which what drugs

[Unknown5]:

so when i when i was eighteen i started doing like you know park jougs like rave drugs like m d um like ecstasy perls uh cocaine um ct amine like the old loads of it all of it i was wild i was crazy um again didn't feel weird cause everybody was doing it i didn't think it was weird so yeah that i mean like there's not much to like break down in that time i guess like there is but there's not like but that whole time between fourteen and twenty that's when i kind of like was depressed anxious um i wouldn't have known israel because i didn't understand mental health when i was eighteen i remember that was like the biggest do you remember what i was telling you before about like having you know like that reality smart of like the world i remember when i was eighteen that was like for me the it was so difficult to

[Unknown4]:

yes

[Unknown5]:

then an adult now and i have to look after myself and i'd never been parented really like not functionally so it was i had to be this adult and that was really tough for me very tough i really struggled with being an adult cause i didn't know what i was supposed to do i didn't know how to be an adult so yeah i i think that's what probably that was probably the start of really when i started getting really like more depressed more dark more hopeless more you know going into those really lower states of consciousness la of no return and then the drugs the alcohol not he pain my ability to not process my own feelings or emotions not even understand my own mental health i think that's then obviously what led to the to the breakdown and then i had i had a break i had a m breakdown when i was twenty and i mean it's beutiful because it's kind of like obviously all of that that had happened for the past however long has just got too much and my body's just broken you know it's just been too much and i've broken out of it i needed to have the breakdown to break break through it all the the breakdown came at twenty air i was very intoxicated of course as always um and yeah i mean i thought about suicide a lot i was very depressed very dark very kind of like miserable and just low energy you know like i wasn't a good person to be around like i actually even had a friend that said to me i can't be your friend anymore because you're too depressed and i was like that feels like a good time to not be my friend like very victim victim mindset you know

[Unknown4]:

wow that's

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

crazy i mean first of all to even be able to acknowledge like and that's an interesting thing about the idea of depression and really trauma in general right they're they're so linked together of how do you know that something was and this is an issue i had for a while it was like i didn't really even realize that like though minor compared to you it's like i didn't even realize like that this sexual trauma was trauma until i was like twenty five or like you're saying like if you're always in a depressed state how do you know that that's depression like how can we and that makes the mental health conversation so difficult of okay well

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

this is depression versus like this is how you should feel it's like well she's a weird word but like you know like here's what depression feels like here's what happiness feels like it's like discussing even something like that feels like so difficult to even begin the mental health conversation

[Unknown5]:

and and people judge like people judge you because one day you you're okay and you can show up and you're doing normal things and then you know i was judged because like my partner at the time he was like i couldn't get out of bed and you're just lazy you're just why are you not getting out of bed and doing things i'll be like i don't know but like this feels worse like why are you calling me lazy i i can't i don't have any energy to move like i don't know what's wrong with me but like you call me lazy doesn't feel helpful but people would judge you because i could still go out and be social and how and have like normal i guess from the outside it would be like you you seem to be fine to me you know people people are like you you look like you're doing f like people are so ju man or like you can't be depressed you look fine you're fine you'd look at you're out here having a drink with us and it's like that feels more like you're alone because you're kind of like well known understands what's got like you can't explain it explain then how you're doing that but still feeling so dark

[Unknown4]:

and i think something that probably also occurs is along the lines of like you know w where like maybe your friends in that situation also had their own issues and maybe they weren't even in like the best place of happiness or knowing what true happiness feels like because that's something i've realized is whatever you're putting out in the world it's going to give it back to you you know so if you're kind of in a dark place yourself you're not going to be attracting like the most let's say enlightened people you know you're gonna be attracting people who are roughly a similar energetic vibe

[Unknown5]:

reflect in it one hundred percent and now i look back and i'm like actually that partner really struggled his mom had like lots of bad mental health he had a he it's like what he said but we're all unconscious of that like who's conscious of all of that stuff when you're when you're going through it it's like you're actually just surrounded by a lot of traumatized people and no one knows what's going on everybody's traumatized and everybody's depressed and anxious and like but no one knows

[Unknown4]:

right

[Unknown5]:

you know

[Unknown4]:

right

[Unknown5]:

so that's um yeah yeah so that's what led to the to the to the breakdowns and that's what that was my breaking point and i it was bound to happen i guess it was inevitable it was going to happen because i'd been taking a lot of drugs and i was very sense i actually got truk and juiced psychosis um

[Unknown4]:

what's that

[Unknown5]:

which was it's like psychosis but talking like i'd got it from the jokes that i was taking so i started to i basically if i would have carried on i would have got schizophrenia i would

[Unknown4]:

oh

[Unknown5]:

have lost my mind yeah so i sighed to see things i started to hear voices um i started to be very paranoid and very like scared i actually because i was brought up a a catholic i actually had this heightened sense of god and devil and when i went to the doctor at this point i was pretty scared you know i was hearing voices and stuff like seeing things the shadows and i was pretty scared and i went to the doctor and i was like i'm like i'm scared like i feel something i think that i'm like pushing the boundaries of something i'm a bit worried and i just told the straight i was like she asked me straight up like are you taking drugs i was like yeah i'm taking all of these drugs i told her everything that i was taking and she was like it sounds like also i'm so scared cause the i think the devil's trying to get me and she was like it sounds like you've just heightened you know because you're heightened the sense of god but you also like we've god comes devil so it's like you've heightened both of those cause i was very sigh to get a bit more like obsessed with like religion and like god gonna save me like i don't know

[Unknown4]:

i was

[Unknown5]:

well i was i actually at the time this is scary but like i felt like the devil wasing me i i could i was creating that that reality of like there was a a demons watching me through the window i was so

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

scared like i can't even express to you how scared i was and and it was so and i mean we know about energy right i i don't believe sorry i don't believe in religion god now just to quote unquote i'm just going to say that and we could dig into that um next but i am i was feeling this energy i was feeling dark energy around man i was petrified and i felt like every turn something was getting me and i started see black shadows flying i could hear the word my name josephine i know it wasn't i mean i don't know it was obviously in me creating that voice but it felt separate from it and i was tripping out but i was still taking drugs and i was actually stopped smoking weed when i was eighteen because of this because i was paranoid so paranoid and it was too much i was losing my mind

[Unknown4]:

w

[Unknown5]:

sh

[Unknown4]:

yeah i mean that's that's crazy and it it really brings me to an understanding of like reality and what we constitute as being real or what we constitute

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

as you know being a what is real because to you those things were real like

[Unknown5]:

they were real yeah

[Unknown4]:

i like you know it's like in your the way you kind of phrase that is like that you

[Unknown5]:

frequ

[Unknown4]:

feel like you were kind of let's say making it up but i i i personally don't know i mean energy are everywhere and your outside world's a reflection of your inside world and so if your inside world was you know i i mean to put it as late as possible but like kind of as much negative energy or heavy and dark energy that you were holding onto it wasn't being processed it wasn't being let out and so this was like in my opinion a way that you're subconscious was creating this

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

i don't know this reality on this i don't know this reality on this

[Unknown5]:

no it is

[Unknown4]:

yeah and so i mean

[Unknown5]:

yeah it's exactly what it was

[Unknown4]:

yeah just because i i guess and here's the weird thing is like just because other people didn't see it doesn't mean that it wasn't real

[Unknown5]:

now it was real for me on to percent like that darkness was real i was experiencing it on a real level now i can see it was a projection of the darkness that was within me you know i can see that now

[Unknown4]:

and so was this and so was this kind of like a part of the darkness that pushed you towards um the first suicide attempt

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah i i am yeah i couldn't live with myself i i didn't i was hopeless i really i actually for me suicide was the idealistic ideal kind of thing it was like that it was the it was it was almost like a relief it was like this is gonna be better this is gonna be i'm gonna be free of suffering i'm gonna be happ so for me this felt like i actually convinced myself that this was like hell and that we were living in a hell and actually it would be better for me to get out of here now i see those just you know reconstruct our own realities what for me that's it just pushed me to the edge i was just like i don't want to be here anymore i don't want to do this life is too hard it's too heavier i'm done get me a ticket out of here i can't deal with it i can't cope coz i i like i was a mass like i was i was it i couldn't tolerate the emotion the build up the not knowing how to regulate my myself my nervous system all of these things like i just would be crying in such a like it was like sobbing and i would just be sobbing my heart i constantly you know like i was just so heavy with emotions and trauma and it was like it's just bound to happen isn't it when you when you think about it when you get to it's like a pressure point of like it needs to release um so yeah i did i did try to take my own life and i the experience was um crazy because i was in an apartment by myself a unifier and i was very intoxicated and i had taken all of the i taken all of these tablets no the first time i wasn't intoxicated sorry that was the second time the first time i wasn't intoxicated i just take i just took clothes and load the those the tablets i've been saving up all of my tablets all of my medication preparing for it so calculated but i'd been saving a poll of my antidepressants all of my antipsychotics all of like all of

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

these like tablets that i could take parasites and i was just like i'm just gonna take them all and actually i mean after researching you can't really kill yourself on top its like it takes a very it's very hard to do i didn't know

[Unknown4]:

no

[Unknown5]:

this so i just ruined my body but i um took so many i took probably about three hundred tablets so i took a lot of top loads um yeah it was a lot and i put myself obviously unconscious because of that like i mean you take a dr cock so i

[Unknown4]:

what what tablet what drug what drugs were just random tablets there were a bunch

[Unknown5]:

like that you

[Unknown4]:

of different stuff

[Unknown5]:

just piracy i mo yeah just pr and depressants slight all of the antidepressants that i'd been building up over the time i had so many different ones yeah

[Unknown4]:

so

[Unknown5]:

just so many different just random stuff like just codeine anything that

[Unknown4]:

just get on

[Unknown5]:

i had a ha like anything that i had basically um and yeah i was messaging my partner at the time like are you know the very classic i'm sorry i love you i'm leaving now was kind of like the you know obviously very alarming and he drove obviously in a panic to get there and when he got there obviously the door was light he had to get someone to break it in and then he dragged me and he said that my body was like a dead way and he was driving me across the ground to the hospital basically and and i was saying so he told me this after i was saying their hair now they're hair now

[Unknown4]:

what

[Unknown5]:

weird does folk so i i was completely in this white space and all i remember was weird does folk so i i was completely in this white space and all i remember was these black these black like really kind of like tall black figures they're just like warped almost just loads of black figures around me like just i don't know what they were or who they were or what it was or my i was just interpreting that energy that way but i just remember he was just saying that i kept saying they're here now they're here now they're here now he was like obviously pretty scared by that i

[Unknown4]:

i

[Unknown5]:

genuinely believe that like that process because i went unconscious then i don't remember anything i just came

[Unknown4]:

yes

[Unknown5]:

back round and i was in a hospital bed and i was like surrounded by the people i don't know what happened but i think that that transition whatever happened was me i guess being met by my spirit guides or being met by my higher self or like i think that something very profound happened there where i remembered so i remembered who i am what i'm here to do i kind of connected back to my spirit i feel that way like that's how because i came back inept feeling very like different almost but like still i mean within two weeks i i tried to commit suicide again but like that's because i think that it was i was like down by the people around me like i was like down by like no one was trying to howl me still so i think that's what led me to the suicide again within two it was it within three weeks i think three weeks later i was back

[Unknown4]:

so i'm i'm really interested and kind of what you experienced during the whole thing right i mean so we know like what happened on the three d realm let's say like you you know you're the person you were seeing at the time came gotch you took you to hospital so from your recollection were you just you said you weren't intoxicated but you just took all these pills and then did you just pass out and then these big black figures kind of appear just around you is that kind of the process

[Unknown5]:

yeah it i remembered my my partner at the time dragging me across the ground and all i remember was i was half unconscious and it was just white everything was white like a bright like a light you know like a very bright light but then there was just like these black figures like around like just appearing around me and i remember

[Unknown4]:

were they like as you were being pulled through the hallway the black figures were beside you

[Unknown5]:

no it was when i was being pulled like with like into i was on the grass so it was

[Unknown4]:

what you

[Unknown5]:

being pulled into the hospital so it was just outside the hospital like it was very like you know like i was unconscious i was going between

[Unknown4]:

we

[Unknown5]:

being outside the hospital to you know like

[Unknown4]:

sw

[Unknown5]:

tripping out into this white space with these black figures

[Unknown4]:

okay and then and then so this happened again within a couple of weeks was that a very similar experience

[Unknown5]:

no so what happened was i was sent home within three days so three days

[Unknown4]:

oh wow

[Unknown5]:

later i was sent at home because i was in a a hospital bed that needed and the doctor no word of a lie the doctor said i'm sorry you can't take up this bad because you're not nothing's wrong with you nothing's physically wrong with you i'm not joking no word

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

of a lie that's what he said to my dad he was like she can't take up the space because we need it for people who have got something

[Unknown4]:

okay

[Unknown5]:

wrong with them and there was no space in a mind or bed or anything like that so they were like you're gonna have to go home so i was sent home don't ask me why my family weren't there like why no one took me into the act maybe i re rejected it i i can't remember but i was i went back into my apartment where it all happened

[Unknown4]:

by yourself

[Unknown5]:

and of course i mean yeah by myself by myself i mean people will come in to visit in and but no one was with me um no one was with me i was alone again so it was just it almost was like oh that's just happened and i've just gone straight back into i've just gone straight back into it i don't know like of course i'm gonna do it again because like i felt so unsupported i felt so alone i felt like no one's hating me no one's hav no seeing me like what's going on um but the second time was so much more dysfunctional because i went to i shouldn't have been drinking i went to a christmas party and it was a open bar and i got absolutely intoxicated of course but someone had actually come up

[Unknown4]:

what

[Unknown5]:

to me and was like do you know your partner has been cheating on you and i was like i'd already i'd already found yeah i'd already found evidence of him on facetime naked to this girl that he worked with he told me that it was like you know none of that was um real basically like it wasn't he'd not done anything and we worked for away and someone come up to me and was like it's it he had been you know my partner told me because his friends and he has been cheating on you basically as you can imagine my state i'm in a very fragile state of mind i just drank so much more alcohol i got so intoxicated it was ridiculous like it was but it was dangerous how much i got intoxicated and then i ended up like like messaging this this person i was like like invited this random guy to my house obviously trying to be i don't know what happened but i then nearly nearly slept with this guy luckily became quite conscious and he and i kicked him out and i was like i don't want to do this like get out i know i think they're that gill of what i just like because then i was like oh my god i've just done what i'm so upset about that he's done and i was just obviously just a mess you know i was just messed up like just not okay not functional and i then basically carried on drinking more and more than i took load more tablets so i just took loads more tablets with the alcohol lead because then at this point they'd prescribed me un psychotics they'd pref prescribe to me they'd given me more tass

[Unknown4]:

cheese

[Unknown5]:

i'd lo them with holes

[Unknown4]:

jeez

[Unknown5]:

so it was it was amazing because i was like i was like yes i've got loads of mo to i'd carried on getting the toddlers thinking this is for my next time

[Unknown4]:

oh my gosh

[Unknown5]:

like i was idealizing it i honestly was having like a fantasy about this is what i'm going to do next at this point i was searching how to actually make it work so then i was searching your hat to make a chemical concoction you know it had to be it had to be you know different and it i was putting a lot of plan into this because i was like this time i'm gonna do it

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

so then that all happened um yeah i bought this i rang my cousin and she came and got me and then yeah i just woke up again in this hospital bed with my cousin next to there and

[Unknown4]:

what else

[Unknown5]:

yeah it was it was crazy it was mad

[Unknown4]:

well real real quick i there's a quick jump there

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

so you did you take the pills and then call your cousin or did you call your cousin then take the pills

[Unknown5]:

yeah now i took the pills then called mason yeah

[Unknown4]:

and and so then you called your cousin and then was like did there dark figures show up again like what what do you

[Unknown5]:

no

[Unknown4]:

remember from the transition

[Unknown5]:

i just was completely unconscious then so but by the time she got married i started to you know like w like lose consciousness and then the next time i woke up i was in a hospital bed um so yeah i don't i don't remember anything that happened then i was completely unconscious

[Unknown4]:

one

[Unknown5]:

um yeah

[Unknown4]:

and so what was the when you broke up in the hospital bed what was like the process like at that point was it like this is the second

[Unknown5]:

you know

[Unknown4]:

suicide attempt are we are we gonna actually help this girl now

[Unknown5]:

yeah this was the second to us yeah that was the second suicide attempt so at this point obviously people they are a bit more i mean a psychologist came to see me and the psychologist said you know speaking to me and i remember the psychologist leaving the room i know it of a lie i try to hung myself

[Unknown4]:

oh wow

[Unknown5]:

i tried i put i put a chair in front of the the thing and i tried to hang myself that i couldn't get high but i just was strangling myself to the point of like you know i was like kind of losing consciousness but i was like this is not going to work and then and then i would just sit there and then i would be thinking how can i kill myself um then i left the hospital no joke i left the hospital no one knew no one no i walked out of the hospital in my nightgown and i walked onto a road cause i was gonna kill myself i was gonna jump in front of the car i i was gone for i take about two hours and i was walking the streets looking like a crazy person i was in this like dressing guar and i was just like im gonna jump front of a car and then i was like no that's selfish like what about the person

[Unknown4]:

okay

[Unknown5]:

i'm going to jump off a bridge that's the way that i'm going to do it i'm gonna and i was walking the streets thinking this is like no one cares about me no one even cares that i'm gone that's what i was thinking and obviously all i wanted was just to be held i just wanted someone to just come take me and say i hear you i love you i've got you let's work through this but it didn't happen but the psychologist i went back and the

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

psychologist kind of was like i don't want to put you in a mental hospital because if i put you in there there's kind of it's a very difficult road to recover her it will be worse because you're around more people who were you know it was he obviously could see that maybe i'm gonna get through this you know and maybe he he's seen a light that i didn't see because he actually was like i really don't want you to go into a hospital with a men at hospital because i just feel that will make you worse it you'll be surrounded by

[Unknown4]:

i

[Unknown5]:

people who are really mental and it will you'll become that you'll become that environment thank god god that i didn't because i don't think i would be here right now maybe i don't know if it be i'd be the same person that was a reality that was there and i didn't step into it thank god

[Unknown4]:

that's wild and they didn't even notice that you had left the hospital for two hours

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

so what what got you to so in your store you were in your night hound walking down the street you were like okay maybe i should jump out in front of a car know that's selfish as you just go and jump off a bridge what what made you pivot from the bridge to i'll just go back to the hospital

[Unknown5]:

you know deep down i just wanted to be helped i didn't wanna be on a ha i just want i wanted to i wanted to believe that like i could be fix i guess in some way i will deep down i ha yourself obviously my high myself knew that it would i could get better you know said so there was a small glimpse of help w amongst it all i guess there was a small glimpse of like a future maybe this can

[Unknown4]:

music

[Unknown5]:

maybe someone can me get through this you know maybe are still hopeful

[Unknown4]:

and so let's

[Unknown5]:

i don't know how

[Unknown4]:

well i mean it looks like you're doing it right now

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

and so i so that was kind of the epiphany i guess you had is that you just had this feeling of like okay there's not like anything wrong with me it's just that i need some sort of almost empathy or validation that like what i'm going through is what it is almost

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah i just need someone to fix it fix it this need someone to come in and tell me what's going on that's say it

[Unknown4]:

man that's crazy i mean i guess crazy's a weird word for it but that's it's one of a kind yeah

[Unknown5]:

it is crazy is c it's it's wild it's a bad story and it's like fantastic in a way because it's like lighting to every e without that story would i be me right now absolutely not i would not be chose joseph

[Unknown4]:

fisher

[Unknown5]:

would be the josephine i am today like helping other people with consciousness and just my experience so i was i really wanted to beal health advocate because i felt like it was so messed up i felt like the whole thing was so messed up

[Unknown4]:

who better to talk about it

[Unknown5]:

you know like i i actually felt so qualified i actually i actually there was like psychology is messed up like sorry it's not for everyone i don't think it like i don't want to just savage i don't know if you you follow the holistic psychologist i love her i love the way that she does psychology at have you heard of her holistic

[Unknown4]:

no maybe

[Unknown5]:

no

[Unknown4]:

maybe if i saw it

[Unknown5]:

maybe you've seen a post but to me i started to see that this whole system was corrupt in a way that was like they should not support for people cause actually i stopped taking the medication and i stopped doing all of those things and i started doing things like meditation and i you know the classic story of like finding the hells he that's what shy heels hailed to me you know so

[Unknown4]:

well that's beautiful so what did that journey look like because that's something that i'm kind of always fascinated about where it's like you know i kind of have this war perception of you know the medical industry i think where i see them as more in a business to cure or no to

[Unknown5]:

a business yeah to trade

[Unknown4]:

treat yeah they're more of a business to treat than to cure

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

and so

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

it how did you kind of come to realize or how did you kind of come to process that okay these drugs aren't really doing it for me and that there's something that i need to go within and heal myself from within because i josephine have that power

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

how did you find that

[Unknown5]:

yeah so so i after that whole experience i then i was oh that's why i tell you what happened from that second suicide i obviously then birthed that new joseph was birthed to a degree i quit my job quit un split up with my boyfriend for three years and i booked along my flight to australia

[Unknown4]:

wow

[Unknown5]:

so yeah yeah so within within that second time of suicide within i'd say two months i was in australia so obviously a high self think he they actually so i that i was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder after that that second attempt so i went and seen the psychiatrist all of that they diagnosed me with emotionally unstable personal disorder which believe it or not they just gave me more medic medication for

[Unknown4]:

of course

[Unknown5]:

i i actually refused the medication and they had somebody coming out to my house every day to make sure that i was okay so they had like somebody like a risk assessment kind of person coming out and making sure that was not committed suicide basically um and in that time i was like i'm gonna go to australia of course they were like that's very impulsive that's it impulsive it is a trait of

[Unknown4]:

it

[Unknown5]:

emotionally un stable personality disorder so they was like um

[Unknown4]:

oh my gosh

[Unknown5]:

yeah so you can imagine i'm like i don't want you tablets i'm moving to into australia i've booked a one way flight everyone's like we don't think this is a good idea like this is not good you've just tried to kill yourself and now you're jumping on a plane to australia like on your own like no you can imagine and why how yourself is like now i know myself i'm doing this i'm gonna be fine this is the way and it was it was so healing for me because i just broke free from all of this construct of you know i wasn't exactly completely healed but like no one was stopping me no one was stopping me going from australia and it was so liberating i felt so much happiness so much joy that moment of being a plane and touching down in australia i remember feeling so excited so happy i'd not felt that for so long you know like and i just was like it's probably why i'm so passionate about job right al it's like i just was like this is what i want to do i'm going to be free like this i want to travel and be free and i wasn't healed i still was doing very dysfunctional things when i was in australia at party and a lot and i mean that's a i this is a halts it's like w surely my life after this is all it's a whole of a podcast because from that then i started doing like sex work i started doing like mad stra flight days being wild still doing drugs like my life was just crazy from that on but i was also like on a spiritual i'd had my awakening so i started to learn about like how i create my own real and it was all very like intertwined and it was very like ace cens from there

[Unknown4]:

that's beautiful i mean

[Unknown5]:

it was amazing

[Unknown4]:

so so then were you i guess so you weren't doing like meditating you weren't doing any sort of let's say spiritual work before you got to australia and so was there just there was like this like this divine feeling of one way ticket drop everything when one way ticket australia

[Unknown5]:

you know what i actually think it's amazing how it's so divine all of this happening is when i was in hospital the second time a friend you know the same friend that couldn't be my friend cause i was depressed she had like her she was my best

[Unknown4]:

exactly

[Unknown5]:

friend for like years she actually came to the hospital i'd not seen her in years and she came to the hospital and she gave me the

[Unknown4]:

what

[Unknown5]:

secret she just gave me the secret it was and i remember at the time thinking why are you giving me a book like i don't i'm i'm just trying to count myself i i don't care about book right now like i remember thinking that anyway it was divine because the sec is obviously like taught you know it's taught starts to teach you a lot lot of attraction so when i first started reading a book in australia because i didn't read it straightway i read it in australia instantly start to resonate a flight it's almost like my high myself have just placed all of these things in my path and it was all divine and

[Unknown4]:

i

[Unknown5]:

aligned because then i started instantly when i read that your thoughts create your reality a it's almost like a whole activation just happened i was like whoa i was like whoa i was like oh and then more and more i started to see how oh i've just created i i just create that depression myself to a degree i've just i've just lived i've just constructed a dark reality because of my own thoughts and feelings so yeah absolutely wild everything so i started to read the secret the secret was the kind of like the it cut the catalyst for me understanding more of attraction and i did start to meditate and be great i start to be grateful so i started to write gradual and you know little things like this

[Unknown4]:

and the snowball f kind of probably just started happening where life just start kind of get a betting yeah

[Unknown5]:

well that's it then yeah yeah yeah things start getting better

[Unknown4]:

and i and in a way and maybe this is kudos to you because they don't weigh this is kind of validating everything for me because for me i look at things at like the most extreme like i truly believe if you feel like you have an idea like take it to the most extreme see if it works either way right and and i and

[Unknown5]:

one

[Unknown4]:

i feel like that i usually kind of can show you where the guard rails or where the barriers of that idea exist right me like a big one recently was like the idea of manifestation where you know if if there was zero manifestation like it wasn't a thing then there would be no change at all whatsoever in the world and everything would be stagnant and you would just be lying in bed two four seven but if manifestation was instantaneous it would be such a chaotic world where josephine and i would never be able to have this conversation right i would just be we

[Unknown5]:

no

[Unknown4]:

would be teleporting to such different locations every time we talked about it or like it came up

[Unknown5]:

all of the time

[Unknown4]:

there's our thoughts right

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah

[Unknown4]:

and so i think that's huge kudos to your story where if somebody who can be on the somebody who attempted suicide arguably three times maybe three and a half it depends on how you wanna count it and you have seen this kind of stuff firsthand of that the world creates your reality like you're at a point now where

[Unknown5]:

yes

[Unknown4]:

you've you are a ra like a rape victim a sexual trauma survivor a and i

[Unknown5]:

water

[Unknown4]:

mean i guess those are interesting words in themselves but you know you've battled through all these things and yet you're now at a point where you're like yeah i i quote unquote created all of that

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah i legit obviously i probably didn't like the idea initially but i could start to see how i'd created the depression i'd create that construct and i mean we can never understand as a child why we attract these kind of things into our life right we never can't maybe i was supposed to or maybe it was the predisposition of like being into you know i'd come into my parent i chose my parents my parents have pretty low vibrational in a way they live it so it's like i'm kind of like naturally gonna experience what they're experiencing so he's like the dog don't start doc

[Unknown4]:

you heard it

[Unknown5]:

yeah i heard it

[Unknown4]:

she'll be getting a sack

[Unknown5]:

yeah yeah and it's all right i actually need to put the charter and it's so it's like oh

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

we

[Unknown4]:

i heard a little bit i was like oh what's going on

[Unknown5]:

were doing so while no it's good yeah yeah right no for i guess it's like the light the light feels like it's enter would buck in um yeah so i i as i start going on this journey more and more things were happening where i was being faced with myself so a lot of self awareness was starting like a lot of things were starting to like reflect i guess back to me and i had

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

to sit like i guess i had to like just learn about myself in such a big way um it's crazy how quickly that went actually but one of really kind of like mo moment times i remember was i was very still victim mentality you know victim consciousness and and i was entitled like very entitled as fork like i thought that the whole world owed me something so i was surrounded by a lot of people who did not experienced anything along the line to what i'd experience i as you can imagine when i'm partying with them and stuff they

[Unknown4]:

six

[Unknown5]:

would drink it would be called it be chailey dark stuff that i've still kind of got within my psyche you know and i would be a mess emotionally a mess and people would just be like you know that's a bit more like so these things were still happening you know like i would ging drink and i would you know i'd be trying to express myself through the for the alcohol um and it got to a point where then i was like why are my friends not asking me how i am why are my friends not checking in on me every single day and you know i was living with these people and i actually had a bit of a shock to my reality because every single friend and i needed it clearly sat me down separately and was like look you're very self absorbed like you're just stuck in your own head you're not you don't care about boss you don't care about like what what's going on like you just think that we we're here to serve you in a way like that that could you invite a bad life that

[Unknown4]:

yes

[Unknown5]:

you know it's that entitlement feeling and i was just like that's actually when a book came into my life the subtle art of not giving a fork one of the best books ever for self awareness absolutely love it i tell everybody to read it and it was he talks about you know people who have bad stuff happen and they think that like it's done everybody else's problem and i remember just that that whole i was like oh like i'm actually the problem hey like i it was just it was a experience after experience where it's like i'm the issue i'm the issue like not an issue but like i'm the one that's like if you don't like this yeah i'm creating this yeah in a way yeah and

[Unknown4]:

i'm creating this

[Unknown5]:

creating this and more and more was happening where it was like i had to be responsible for that um so yeah i i really kind of went on obviously there's so much that happens you know in that like you can't just explain that that all of that progression in in a a conversation but there were so many liars to it and i really kind of transcended some of layers in a really kind of transformative way you know i was i was very real with myself and when i start to be honest with myself i

[Unknown4]:

thank you

[Unknown5]:

was like okay self awareness is like the best thing like if i can be really self aware i'm gonna get through life pretty well and i started to really practice that so i think it's the best practice that anybody could do is being very self aware because then you start to create much better circumstances like i lived my dream of life and i'm like it's actually amazing how i've gone from like this to this you know it's like whoa

[Unknown4]:

all right all right

[Unknown5]:

because of because of that now in

[Unknown4]:

i mean you know if there's anyone that has really changed their life let's say from if you could argue from hell to heaven you know i think it's you

[Unknown5]:

and i think that's why i so passionately want to be of service and help people because i'm like i know for a fact anybody can transform like i know it because i've done it it's not like i'm just giving you some textbook things like i'm not i'm not just saying this because like it sounds cool i've done it

[Unknown4]:

you've lived it

[Unknown5]:

i've done the process i've lived it i've gone through the journal and i've been suicidal i've tried to kill myself and now i'm living in pure blas like go figure it's possible for every single person you know you

[Unknown4]:

i love it

[Unknown5]:

just gotta jump a timeline it's like it's bad

[Unknown4]:

just a quick little timeline shift

[Unknown5]:

yeah that's it easy is

[Unknown4]:

i i think that that's a beautiful and i think it's the perfect way to wrap this up

[Unknown5]:

it really is

[Unknown4]:

i think it's

[Unknown5]:

it's beautiful it's perfect it is i agree

[Unknown4]:

is there is there anything that you want to i'll i'll give you the floor for a bit i'll throw your information in the description below but is there

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

anything you want to encourage people to do any words of advice any anything you want to plug

[Unknown5]:

i yeah like if there's something you don't like about your reality go inwards if it's if it's if if something doesn't reflect in your reality that you enjoy your love or like then it's something internal like always there is literally nothing that you're not creating you're creating every every cell and atom is being created by your you and how you're feeling about the world and your perceptions of the world so yeah just if you want to create a re heaven on earth y' heaven on earth just just be intentional about everything that you do in and and create it 'cause you can't

[Unknown4]:

beautiful words

[Unknown5]:

that's what i wanna say yeah

[Unknown4]:

josephine thank you i really appreciate you sharing your story appreciate you sharing your story with the conscious monkeys and i'm glad we finally got it got it all out

[Unknown5]:

yeah i hope it helps i hope it helps people i really do

[Unknown4]:

yeah i it helped me at the very least to help me see some things in a different light and so yeah i mean take that for what it's worth but yeah a couple more people i'm sure it will i'm sure it will

[Unknown5]:

we have to do another one now clayton about like just being conscious surely

[Unknown4]:

now yeah we got a whole thing coming after this

[Unknown5]:

yeah we've got a whole thing a sequel

[Unknown4]:

yeah

[Unknown5]:

amazing yeah

[Unknown4]:

uh

[Unknown5]:

thank you so much for holding space

[Unknown4]:

yeah absolutely i mean it's

[Unknown5]:

and be patient be impatient

[Unknown4]:

it's been a big one

[Unknown5]:

it's fun it's very vague yeah really grateful

[Unknown4]:

yeah well i mean thank you i yeah holding space is huge i mean it's hard i guess it's hard to do nowadays but anyone can do that as well i know um

[Unknown5]:

yeah

[Unknown4]:

so yeah so thank you josephine again conscious monkeys if you want to get in contact with josephine and ask any questions links in the links below to go check her out if you made it through i mean you know pat yourself on the back because i was a deep that was a deep conversation you self you're about of yourself uh oh i guess we everyone should be patting themselves on the back um

[Unknown5]:

we made it

[Unknown4]:

we made it with that being said you guys have listened to all this thank you i know it was a little chaotic but i think that's kind of where the beauty lies and you know if not everything's perfect so take that for what it is

[Unknown5]:

yes

[Unknown4]:

josephine thanks again conscious monkeys go check her out in the links below i have nothing to add that i just been wrapped up perfectly with that being said conscious monkeys let's grow together